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Talk:Projects/2015 Layout Revamp

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Please provide feedback about the currently proposed revision here. Thank you, -- Sixorish (talk) 04:13, January 18, 2015 (UTC)


Resistances

Hello everyone,


As part of the new look TibiaWiki will be receiving, we should adjust de resistances mechanism,

as it displays the values of the damage that will be done to the creature, since if a creature have a 100% physical resistance (as it is on the pages, it would take no damage from phisycal attacks. And the contrary applies on creatures like ghosts, that have a 100% phisycal resistance property, but is shown like 0%)


Kind regards,

ArturCamp (talk) 15:15, February 15, 2015 (UTC)


Hi,

I understand the problems here:

  • The graph shows -X% under the header "resistances" - but -X% resistance would mean +X% damage (thus, ghosts would receive 2x physical damage).
  • The table shows resistance properties and lists the damage modifiers (0%, 105%, etc.).

The representations are correct, it was intended for the modifiers to be shown in the table instead of +-%, and it was intended for the graph to show damage taken relative to 100% (so -100% for immune).

The problems, then:

  • How can we concisely but consistently label the section of the table with damage modifiers?
    • Damage Modifier Properties is very long,
    • Damage Properties is unclear,
    • Damage Modifiers is inconsistent with the rest of the table (and other infobox tables), this one seems to be the best option if we can agree on removing the "Properties" suffix.
  • How can we rename the Resistances header?
    • Damage Taken From Elements - this seems viable; it's a header so it's fine to have long names, if we can agree on this

The lack of a word for the opposite of resistance complicates matters. -- Sixorish (talk) 06:15, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


Well, wouldn't 'vulnerability' suffice as the opposite of 'resistance'? What you proposed would also work fine, though. -- Wouterboy (talk) 10:19, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


Interesting, on a semi-related side note, in civil engineering a similar thing exists with load, there they are called "factors" or "modifiers".

I would agree with renaming "Resistance Properties" to "Damage Modifiers" in the properties table floating right. About renaming the "Resistances" header, what about "Normalized Damage Modifiers"? -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:59, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


@Wouterboy: vulnerabilities would be fine but do you think the audience will adapt to it? "Resistances" is very common, which is why I was hesitant to change.

@Bennie: SOME PEOPLE IN THE WORLD AREN'T ENGINEERS OKAY? I mean, damage modifiers would be my first choice but I think it sounds very technical and the audience would probably have to look 'modifiers' up.

-- Sixorish (talk) 14:09, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


As I stated on the corresponding section in Talk:Administrator Team:

Since the title above the resistance bars is Resistances, they should be consistent [...] Either the title should be changed (to something like Element Modifiers) or the bars should be changed. Also, to make it clearer, instead of displaying +##% and -##% it could display ##% weak and ##% strong. 0% could simply be displayed as Neutral, and 100% strong as Immune.

I'm fine with either Element Modifiers or Damage Modifiers for the table section. Damage Taken From Elements sounds a clear header for me. Clearer even than Vulnerabilities, the community isn't used to say a certain creature is ##% vulnerable to a certain element. That's why I'm in favor of using known expressions as ##% weak, ##% strong, neutral and immune to.



Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 05:54, February 18, 2015 (UTC)


I must that the way it's listed now is just really wierd. If something is 100% resistant to f.e Fire, that would mean they are immune to fire, not that it is neutral to fire. I think "Elemental modifiers" or "Elemental properties" should be good, or that it says "strong/weak/neutral".

On a side-note, a lot of creatures property-boxes list wrong immunities when it comes to invisibility and paralysis. F.e It currently says a rotworm senses invisibility. Is it neccessary to have these stats protected? --Dunderbullen (talk) 19:20, February 22, 2015 (UTC)


The invisibility/paralysis information is added with the sensinvis and paraimmune parameters of the page. This defaulted to yes and yes (displayed as sense invis=yes and paralysable=no) but the rotworm page didn't have these parameters. I've changed it so that it doesn't default to yes anymore and instead puts a question mark indicating it's not known/added to the page.

I've changed it so that it says Damage Taken From Elements and Elemental Properties for now. This can be changed though. -- Sixorish (talk) 05:34, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

Transcripts

NPC transcripts are not shown. I prefer this way, since they are kind of spoiler, but there could be links to them. Thascius (talk) 13:17, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


I'll put transcripts back soon, maybe Wednesday. I forgot about that. I actually initially wanted history pages to also be integrated but history pages are a bit weird at the moment. -- Sixorish (talk) 14:09, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


Added a transcripts section on the bottom. Not sure how we should deal with the case of transcripts not being available (e.g. Sam surprisingly) because there is no hint anywhere as to how to create the transcripts. Suggestions are welcome. -- Sixorish (talk) 00:06, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Template Infobox Creature

Tag runsat is not working as it used to. Please, see Corym Vanguard history for an example. Thascius (talk) 13:25, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


Using the old template it would have just silently failed, outputting no error. This is an unsupported format. If the value is unknown it should be the color of the health when it starts to run (red, yellow, green...), or a range like |runsat=40, 60 or |runsat=red, yellow. -- Sixorish (talk) 13:43, February 16, 2015 (UTC)


Obujos, Jaul and Tanjis (there can be others) are displaying "[[Category:]]" at the bottom. I could not fix it. Thascius (talk) 16:25, February 17, 2015 (UTC)


Old bug with categories. Fixed now. Apparently the template expected "None" and you couldn't leave it blank. I have changed it so that it ignores blank primarytype/secondarytypes. Thanks. -- Sixorish (talk) 23:37, February 17, 2015 (UTC)

Section Headers

Section headers will now behave as links to their section. Meaning: if you click on e.g. Location header on an NPC page you will be scrolled down to that section. When hovering over the headers there is a "section" character displayed to the left and the cursor will become a pointer to indicate you can interact with it.

Let me know if this bothers you at all. I wasn't sure if the color should be consistent with the header color because it's not meant to be part of the header. -- Sixorish (talk) 01:47, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, No or ?

Hi. I'm afraid that lots of creatures' articles might be showing "Yes No: Invalid input (?)" in the general properties. Please, see Orc Marauder's history for an example. Thascius (talk) 00:45, March 7, 2015 (UTC)


I'm not sure if this should be "fixed". On one hand, a "?" does indicate that it's unknown. On the other hand, an error very clearly shows potential editors what needs to be checked. Particularly for the illusionable parameter, which is very easy to test, an error is fine because any editor with a high enough druid can test this in a matter of seconds. -- Sixorish (talk) 02:58, March 7, 2015 (UTC)


I think that unknown and ? should be valid input values. If a parameter value is unknown but the article displays "?", an editor will be inclined to type ? for other parameters.
If a "required" parameter is not supplied, or its value is empty, the default output should be "?", instead of (pushes) or (pushable), because they are misleading. The "?" encourages an editor to test the right value, and it is consistent with other parameters like Paralysable. Thascius (talk) 15:16, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

I mean, if a "required" parameter is unknown, the default output should be "?." Thascius (talk) 15:21, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Done. -- Sixorish (talk) 23:32, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Read more

Hi. The Read more section of the articles (e.g. Items) is not working properly. Thascius (talk) 00:52, March 7, 2015 (UTC)


I assume you mean because it's displaying this:

Properties Dropped By Buy From Sell To Properties You see a masterpiece of a muse.It weighs...

There's not much we can do about that. Wikia's code adds these sections, as far as I know our templates have never been very compatible with it. The problem is that any content inside tables gets stripped, but some things that aren't part of tables (such as the header immediately before the properties table) does get included. This is why tables were removed where possible - search engines/web indexers/etc. treat content within tables somewhat differently, when it shouldn't for some of the content.

-- Sixorish (talk) 02:50, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Mobile

There are some issues when viewing via mobile:

  • Yes CheckOn NPC pages with the new posx,posy,posz parameters a mapper part is shown, but on the mobile view no javascript is loaded (I think that's the reason) and just an image of the full map is shown. My suggestion would be to completely hide the mapper image on NPC pages viewed mobile, maybe by adding a class like "mobile-hide" which has "display: none" on the mobile css.
  • The transcripts table is shown weird, again because some css/js is not loaded on mobile
  • Yes CheckThe "Damage taken from Elements" section should be hidden on mobile view as well, the bars are not shown, all damage icons are shown and the info is already in the table either way. Luckily the custom to format e.g. loot, related creatures or sounds in lists and not tables, makes it look very good mobile.

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 11:16, March 7, 2015 (UTC)


I looked at Frodo and his transcripts look fine. Only problem is that it doesn't parse the {keywords}.

I added the mobile-hide class to Template:Minimap because I think the same will apply to every map used. Unfortunately mobiles may not be able to access the maps of some spoilers... -- Sixorish (talk) 12:18, March 7, 2015 (UTC)


Thanks, I added the class to MediaWiki:Handheld.css, I think this is cached because I haven't seen the result yet, but we'll see. This is what I meant with transcripts displaying a bit weird, and location showing full map:
Click Here to Show/Hide Spoiler Information
Spoiler warning: Quest and/or game spoiling details follow. (Settings: hidden content)

samir_transcripts.jpg samir_location.jpg

Spoiler ends here.

-- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 14:00, March 8, 2015 (UTC)


History-page Button

I can't find it anymore. Is this intended? I don't mean the revision-history, I mean the history pages for some spells, items, monster etc.

Dunderbullen (talk) 17:17, May 25, 2015 (UTC)


You are right, thanks for noticing. This is not intended, we'll need to add it somehow. -- Bennie (talk ~ fellows) 19:15, May 25, 2015 (UTC)


I'll add a link to the bottom of the pages when I have a bit more time.

If history pages were in good shape we could include them on the page, but they're not. I'd like to have a "history" section at the bottom of pages to describe changes made to items in game updates. But the way they are currently formatted would break page structures.

For example, Pair of Earmuffs/History. It contains a Template:History call. This template deliberately leaves an element open so that it does not need to be closed. Then it adds two level 3 headers "origin" and "ice protection". Our page structure uses level 3 headers for the major sections of pages, so history. -- Sixorish (talk) 22:41, May 25, 2015 (UTC)

NPCs Actual Name

This is a list of NPCs that might have an actualname parameter different than their name. After checking an NPC ingame (either by looking at them or talking to them), add {{done}} before their name.

Done based on transcripts (might be wrong):

Hunter of Dragoes (Talk · Contribs · Admins) - 13:08, June 8, 2015 (UTC)

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